At my daughter's school, parents are welcome to come and have lunch with their children. I do this occasionally, but it's something of a treat for both of us when I can.
Lunch lasts all of 20 minutes. I spend it chatting with the Empress and her gaggle of friends. It always seems to be a big deal for the kids when a parent comes for lunch--no matter whose parent happens to show up. I guess the kids enjoy the diversion.
Recently, I've been hearing about lunches with the mom of one of my daughter's classmates. According to the Empress, this woman teaches some kind of "manners class." To the Empress' credit, she has very nice manners, but she--understandably--gets nervous when this woman is around. After all, this mom is a PROFESSIONAL!
Well....someone needs to tell Ms. Thang to get some manners of her own. Last week, she started critiquing my daughter's lunch. Apparently she's a vegetarian and she thinks everyone else should be one too. Oh...and she didn't approve of the cinnamon roll I gave the Empress for dessert. (I should note that the Empress eats two bites of anything and is finished--so getting a few calories into her is a major goal. It's not like she has a steady diet of Cinnabons....)
The Empress came home that day with her lunch almost completely intact. She was too intimidated to eat.
That was bad enough--but yesterday, the Empress told me that Ms. Manners stopped her as she was beginning to eat and asked her if she had said grace!
Once again, lunch came home almost untouched.
Now that's a bridge too far for me. Some stranger I've never even met is coming into a public school cafeteria and instructing my child not only on what to eat, but on her spiritual duties?!
Time to get creative, my friends. How should I handle this? (Short of pistols at dawn, of course...)
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Ooooh, I'm not sure pistols at dawn is a bad idea here. I'd be fairly annoyed with a parent that was pulling that kind of stuff. As far as the felony-free solution goes, though, I would try and find out the next time the mom is going to be there and quietly pull her aside for a chat. She might not know she's intimidating the Empress, and be apologetic when she finds out.
Call the woman and tell her to butt out -- (nicely of course) and call the school and report this harassment of your child. I am sure there are other parents who want the woman to stop this. It is just another type of bullying - big person gets to abuse little person --
Wow... wow, just wow.
Let me ask you this Doxy, is there a way for you to discreetly show up on a day when the other mom is there? It would be interesting to see if she did this when you were there and then to act.
Short of that, is there a teacher or the principal that you can bring into this?
Today I read the term "generously angry" and I'd like to think that this is what I feel, but I'm leaning more towards furious that this woman has done this. Bad enough under any circumstances, but does your kid need one more stress point? NO.
Call Ms. Thang and invite her over, then gently raise the topic with her over tea and biscuits. Emily Post (verbing a noun here) her to death until she thinks that mending her ways is her own idea.
Ideally she should not only cease and desist but also apologize to the Empress. How often are ideals realized, though? Settle for her cutting the crap.
If that doesn't work, get a hard cover copy of Miss Manners (I have the paperback, and that's a hefty tome itself) and whack her over the head with it whilst screaming, "You keep your nasty little bad manners to yourself, you [expletive deleted] bitch!"
That fallback plan may help you feel MUCH better, but I think the tea route might be more productive.
Yours most sincerely,
Priscilla
Emily Post is the first to explain that the whole point of etiquette is to put others at ease and decrease the stress of social occasions, not increase it. If you know the woman, address it with her directly, matter of factly ("We all make our own decisions on how to rear our childen, and I'd appreciate your respecting that boundary"). If not, contact the teacher, and ask her to address it with the parent. That's her/his job, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect her/him to do it.
I think you need to call this woman. My fear about calling the school would be that the school would just say that NO ONE could come for lunch with their kids anymore.
Clearly "Miss Manners" needs to be reminded of how rude it is to comment on someone's choice of food.
As for saying grace, if that were to happen again, I would say call the school and damn the consequences!
- Anne
Give her the benefit of the doubt first. Your first line of defense should always be an attempt to address the issue inquisitively. It's your basic reconnaissance/scouting tactic. That way, you can assess if this is a misunderstanding (Perhaps Ms. Thing is doing it gently or inquisitively, but doesn't realize that it's impacting the Empress. Perhaps Ms. Thing is giving her personal opinion/experience and the gaggle is in agreement in awe of a parent, and the Empress is intimidated by the crowd's agreement.)
Coming at the same time that she is will help you observe and determine if that's what's going on.
If it's clear that Ms. Thing is an aggressor, then it may be time to pull her gently aside and let her know what effect it's having on the Empress and why it is important to you that the Empress be well fed at the end of the day. You have to make it clear that while you respect her parenting style and opinions, they are not the ones that you hold and you would likewise never want to step on hers when it comes to her child.
Now, if it turns out that she's a self-righteous dinglehopper, I think you are well served to calmly, but gently request that she not impose her perspectives on the Empress. Make it clear that you have no problem with her coming in for parent lunches, but that her behavior with regard to how it affects the Empress specifically, is unwelcome. If you respect her right to behave however she wants away from the Empress, then she should likewise demonstrate respect to be aware of her impact and your desires as a parent. Her style is not your style and she has no business critiquing it in front of the Empress and her court. Basically, back off.
Regardless of whichever situation it turns out to be, I think it's important for the Empress to convene with you and for you to express that no one's opinions, no matter who holds them or how popular with her court, should cause her to do something she doesn't want to. If she likes her food and likes her cinnamon bun (which are delicious), then she should not feel bad about eating them just because someone else doesn't like them. An analogy might be helpful, like, if the court decided that they didn't like pizza, would she stop eating it?
Anyway, I think it's important not to jump the gun with Ms. Thing before you've gathered sufficient intelligence about her. Then you can make the best decision and order in the air strike as appropriate.
I agree with most of the other responses. Mrs. Thang doesn't have good manners herself--how can she teach others. She is bullying the Empress and bullying is unacceptable under any circumstances. She may think that she is helping the Empress and doesn't see or understand the problem she is causing or respect boundaries of others. Wish the Empress was able to speak up to Ms.Thang. The Empress' mother, however, has taught her good manners.
Talking to or confronting Ms.Thang is probably the best route. I agree that if you contact the school, all parent visitations at lunch might be cancelled. But if contacting the school is the only solution, GO FOR IT!!
Talk it over with the Empress- what would she like to say to the woman - how can she frame it - Empower her to stand up to bullies - no matter if they are a mother and bigger
Just one note - I can't imagine the school barring parents from coming to lunch. That's a system-wide policy and it would take a lot more than this to make that happen. Allowing the teacher to handle things like this is often best, as it keeps a comfortable distance between the parties. My kids never wanted me to intervene in these kinds of things because they were embarrassed and felt awkward. The teacher can talk in terms of the group, rather than the Empress specifically, which might make her feel more secure.
I favor being sure you have the details right--which you should be able to gather from a conversation with Ms. Thang. Is she contrite? Willing to make amends to a child? Work with her.
OTOH, if she is defensive and self-righteous, let her have both barrels. School authorities are a last resort; they'll muck it up.
It doesn't surprise me that someone with the inflated confidence necessary to appoint herself arbiter of manners has none of her own.
So... does the Empress attend a public school? Because if she does, not even a visiting parent can legally put a child on the spot about saying grace. I'd put in a call to Miss Manners about that in a hot minute!
But public school or private, Ms. Thang needs to be told to mind her own fromaging business.
Consider the source...
I agree with StephJ.
Also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/etiquette-vigilante
My child preferred I was hands off except through the teacher/principle at the Empress' age because this woman (and others) frequently don't appreciate when to stop and things escalate. Um, nobody wants to see this mother when things escalate, trust me.
Or, you could call the woman and ask if it's alright if you teach her child to engage in prayers to Zeus (or choose a god) because that's only appropriate given this is a public institution. Be careful what you ask, manners-lady, everybody is NOT like you. :)
I am agreeing with all the advice already written here so I will just say kudos to a mom that packs a cinnamom bun in her kid's lunch. A little touch of love goes a long way in a stressful day.
Many adults do not realize how much power their words have over a child.
I have continued to think about this and Doxy, I have shared my own childhood horror story about a similar mom to you in an email.
The teacher/school should probably be involved. It does require your intervention. Going to the mom directly sets up a dynamic that might not bring this to its best end.
I'm still thinking about your kid not needing one iota of distress any more than she has had lately.
I have a 12 year old (also a picky eater who doesn't eat all of his lunch) and would lean toward asking him how he wanted to handle the situation.
So much depends on how good your school is at dealing with things like this.
If you have a good relationship with your daughter's teacher then go directly to her/him and mention that, intentional or not, the other mother's 'etiquette lessons' are disrupting your daughters lunch. Teachers have a vested interest in making sure kids actually eat, since they have to deal with the consequences of low blood sugar children later in the day.
It also depends on how well the other mother. If not at all, then I would be more prone to going through the school to handle it.
I'm all for talking directly with your daughter and helping her come up with ways to handle the situation herself (which doesn't always mean confrontation-- just letting her know she can choose to tune out and just eat her lunch might be helpful).
My personal gut reaction is more along the lines of calling the woman and telling her to butt out, but that would likely cause more drama.
Your main goal seems to be seeing that your daughter has a relaxing lunch break so she will eat her lunch and be ready for the rest of her day. Frame your concerns around that rather than worrying too much about if what your daughter reported is what actually happened. Her reaction to what happened is more important than if her story exactly matches what the other mother thought was happening.
Doxy, I know what it's like to try to get calories into the diet of a child who doesn't eat much, and your story infuriates me. The mother hen in me objects strongly to this woman's behavior
Once you're sure you have the facts straight, and you've talked it over with the Empress, tell the proper authority at the school, and inform them that you plan to tell the other mother to bug out - in a polite way.
I'd make sure your daughter knows the fault isn't hers -- she hasn't done anything wrong.
Some people think it's all right to say anything, especially to a kid. It isn't, and it can damage a child's view of herself.
Bless you all for taking the time to comment!
I have found the Empress to be a VERY reliable source, so I can trust that what she told me is accurate.
I also have a very good relationship with her teacher, who is truly an excellent and gifted educator--and I couldn't pick the other mother out of a line-up. So I think I will approach the teacher and ask for her advice/help.
I agree that it's important to teach kids to stand up for themselves--but this business crosses so many boundaries that I don't think it's reasonable to expect the Empress to take Ms. Manners on. The crossing of religious boundaries was the hot button for me--although the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the food policing could actually have longer-term and more negative consequences.
I'll let y'all know what happens....
Saint Pat -- what a nice surprise to see you blogging again and congratulations on your upcoming marriage. Sorry about the process stuff - I hate the church for that -= but happy you have a church home and this great relationship.
I'm so glad to see this resolved. Thank goodness for Emily! (I probably would have gone with the pistols at dawn approach -- so good that I got here late. )
Glad to hear the latest, Doxy. I'm thinking problem solved.
Sounds like you handled it perfectly - and with all the hang-ups one hears about schools & school-teachers having nowadays, how fortunate you are.
Does she look like Church Lady, or just act like her?
Lapin--I couldn't pick her out of a lineup.
But in addition to her other...activities...she is also a "pageant mom." So I have an image of her in my head...indeed, I do.
Etiquette lessons from a pageant mom. Now there, as the late, great Molly I used to say, is a concept>
What's wrong with pistols at dawn?
My eyesight sucks....
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